Talk:Hakaishin Beerus Arc
Name Change Why was the name changed? The name doesn't infer or translate to "Battle of Gods" --[[User:New World God|''NWG]] 17:24, December 10, 2016 (UTC) :"God and God" is legitimate translation from transliterations. It's a pure Japanese phrase, and actually there're tons of valid ways to transliterate and to adapt. The only reason I took the name changed is because of Akira Toriyama's idea of the battle between Hakaishin (Destruction '''God') and "Super Saiyan God" repeated multiple times on his different interviews. Don't make me wrong, I won't say the transliteration is not accurate, the adapatation word "Battle of Gods" isn't either but clearly it makes more sense, right? --'L.I.N' (Saiyan Beauty) 18:44, December 10, 2016 (UTC) :::Toriyama outright stated he chose the name "God and God" for the film because it involved two gods. The name God and God fits, and is the official Japanese name. We're not gonna start using dub names for things here, that isn't what this wiki is about.—Mina Țepeș 18:45, December 10, 2016 (UTC) :::Not absolutely true. "Battle of Gods" is written in the official poster as well. "God and God" is more likely direct transliteration, but not an only one. Unlike those phrases which was written by katakana, the kanji could have many ways of adaptation into English. In this way, it's not a case of transliteration, it was our conscious choice. Couldn't we find other ones rather than the one has Two "god" nouns in the name? --'L.I.N' (Saiyan Beauty) 19:03, December 10, 2016 (UTC) :::Well, i'm not an expert here but wouldn't God versus God be a better Transliteration, i'm assuming this is like the Great Monkey Transformation, right? --[[User:New World God|''NWG]] 19:31, December 10, 2016 (UTC) :::I see no reason to change it beyond a preference of aesthetic. God and God, as far as I am concerned, works fine. Its the literal translation, it isn't inaccurate. For all we know, Battle of Gods could have been a tagline for the original Japanese poster that the American release took and ran with.—Mina Țepeș 19:33, December 10, 2016 (UTC) ::::You don't get to the point. "Battle of Gods" is not a tagline, it's written in the center: the English title. And..d, yes, GoG isn't inaccurate but I did not talk about the accuracy. Translation is an art and we have many options better. Using tranlations from character transliterations doesn't improve the wiki. --'L.I.N' (Saiyan Beauty) 20:17, December 10, 2016 (UTC) :::::LIN, but if the movie is marketed as "God and God" we should accurately name it that. Because if the title isn't inaccurate how does that exactly make it right to change it, of course i'm asking in good faith and not assuming bad intentions. I'll completely hear you out. Is the movie actually called BoG in the japanese movie? If its not, then it should remain, but if it is called that we should change it. --[[User:New World God|NWG]] 22:52, December 12, 2016 (UTC) ::::::The English phrase you asked for appears in the official Japanese poster for the said movie. And, again, there's nothing called "accurate" discussed here, since "神と神" contains ''kanji and hiragana character types, it could have many ways of translating into English. No field-specific translations, no particular ones. --'L.I.N' (Saiyan Beauty) 03:33, December 13, 2016 (UTC) :::::::Lin, I know, i'm not contesting that. I'm trying to make you realize that isn't a justification. The english in God and God is to point out the event in the film, and makes perfect sense in english. Its to say God (Goku) and God (Beerus). It could probably mean "God versus God". Sure I grant that, it could mean anything. But the title of the film or the arc isn't Battle of Gods. That's more of my issue with it. I'm not denying it could mean this or that. I'm simply asking how is it justifiable to change it something that is unrelated, in terms of context and accuracy to the actual film's name? Now, i'm simply asking if the film itself is named BoG (in japanese market or its japanese name) if it is, I'll accept what you tell me, if its not I cannot accept it, given that we should be accurate to its translation. It would make us look bad. --[[User:New World God|''NWG]] 04:13, December 13, 2016 (UTC) ::::::::If it could be translated into anything, either "God and God" or "God versus God" is fine. I didn't mean those are wrong at all, but using something directly derived from character transliterations is not wise since it put a limit on translating and on improving the wiki. Moreover, the English title I said before is using on legitimate promotional materials, for examples, check this and this; I know you may think the English is a bit loose, we could choose others but when it came official, priotizing above the term of context. --'L.I.N' (Saiyan Beauty) 05:21, December 13, 2016 (UTC) :I'll concede to this discussion. If this standard hinders your translations, I apologize. I'll allow Aha and Ten handle this. --[[User:New World God|NWG]] 06:39, December 13, 2016 (UTC) ::Talked to my translator to double-check myself the movie will be changed to a more translatable version, but not LINs choice. There is a movie called that has the same issue, where they didn't use the literal translation, so I would propose if people really want to make a better title 1. It would not be Battle of Gods. It has '''never' been marketed as such, and it is wrong to pretend it is. Its hubris and dishonest, yes its on the poster. Newsflash: who cares? 2. My translator said it would be better to call it Dragon Ball Z: The God and the God or Dragon Ball Z: The God and God. That's what I thought it would've ended up translating to, and its what my translator has concluded to. If doesn't sound 'cool' yeah well it was never a cool name. But arc would not follow suit, because it should have the latest arc name such as the Hakaishin Beerus Arc in the latest releases. Because the only time the arc was named the "God and God arc" was when no one knew much about it, it was like "yeah, remember the movie with Beerus, thats the next arc of the same events in the movie". So the pages have been wrong for a while. --[[User:New World God|''NWG]] 19:12, December 14, 2016 (UTC) :::I'm not sure if who how good your translator is in the manner of translating sth, if he'd read all the conversation and received the whole point from you, but why didn't he get here and tell it himself? Get the idea from someone out is not like objective third-person view and does not give any weight to me. You said ''it is officially on the poster and you stated It has '''never' been marketed'', and I can't get this. Also, the fanbase knowledge has nothing to do with this issue, context and art of translation does. --'L.I.N' (Saiyan Beauty) 14:34, December 15, 2016 (UTC) ::::You're either immensely dense or you're purposely speaking past me at this point and misrepresenting what i'm telling you. Time to put the training wheels back on another talkpage. Your entire diatribe is a non-sequitur that is a waste of a response. All you're saying at this point is a regurgitation that "BoG its on the paper". Your point? I have just explained to you that I concede that its one paper, what is your point? How does that prove it's the film's name over God and God? This isn't a subjective position. I'm asking for your burden of proof. I didn't change the page's name, now did I? How does that justify the name change? It doesn't. It's not the film's name, get over it. There is no art in the translations. Empirically its God and God that BTW it makes sense in english. I hope you know that coming from a person who knows english and speaks it. There is no reason to change it, and given your reasoning its an irrational position to change it. Based on what? Because its likely a tagline that so happens to be used in the english dub and Kanzenshu? Its called God and God, its been marketed in every poster (that you're referencing), every site, every place names it God and God, the only group that doesn't is FUNimation. Now my translator. I can bring him in here to crack skulls, again. I have no issue with that. But this is meaningless and needless to bring up. Because it still doesn't change the argument or the framing of the conversation, it still doesn't justify anything you're pivoting into. At this point i've asked to present where has Movie 18 called Battle of Gods, not taglines, not dubs, not kanzenshu, as in actual site where the film is marketed by official retailers, the copyright owners, hell Toriyama himself to state the in actuality the movie is called Battle of Gods instead of God and God. There isn't? The Conversation is over. I literally tried meeting you halfway, and you still continue this banter like some ideologue being dismissive to what's empirically standing in front of you. --[[User:New World God|''NWG'']] 15:44, December 15, 2016 (UTC)